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Catch Me When I Fall
Catch Me When I Fall
Ketamine Addiction: Finlay’s Story of Pain, Recovery and Purpose
Ketamine Addiction: Finlay’s Story of Pain, Recovery and Purpose
In this powerful episode of Catch Me When I Fall, Finlay Worthington shares his lived experience of ketamine addiction — a story of emotional disconnection, physical harm, and ultimately, recovery.
What started as a party drug quickly spiralled into daily use, isolation, and serious health consequences including extreme bladder pain and hospital visits. Finlay opens up about the reality of addiction, the cycle of relapse, and what finally helped him break free — from rehab to finding his purpose in helping others.
Now over a year sober, Finlay runs Ketamine Education Services (KES) and works to raise awareness of the growing risks of ketamine use in young people.
This is an honest, sometimes graphic, but hopeful conversation about what ketamine can really do — and what recovery can look like.
💬 If you’ve been affected or need help:
👉 Visit https://inspirelancs.org.uk
for free, confidential drug and alcohol support across Lancashire.
📍 Outside Lancashire? Contact your GP or search for local drug and alcohol support services.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:You're listening to Catch Me When I Fall, real voices, real stories, and honest conversations about recovery, resilience, and everything in between. In today's episode, we're talking about something that's becoming more and more common, ketamine use, and the serious impact it can have on someone's life. But more importantly, we're hearing from someone who's been through it and come out of the other side. Finley Worthington has kindly agreed to sit down and share his story, from how it started, the toll it took, and what helped him find a way forward. His honesty is powerful, and we hope his journey might offer a bit of hope to anyone struggling or anyone trying to understand. So let's get into it. Hi everyone and welcome to this special episode of our podcast. Today's conversation is a powerful one. We're joined by someone who's kindly offered to share their lived experience around ketamine use, the challenges, the impact and most importantly the journey of change. Huge thanks for you Finley or Finn Warrington for joining us. So Finley, thanks so much for being here. Thanks for having me on mate. Are you alright? You're good? All good, yeah. Yeah, that's good mate. Very good. Brilliant. So first things first then, let's start off. Can you tell us a little bit about how your relationship with Ketamine began? potentially, like, what was going on in your life at that time, if we can go back there?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, of course. So I was about 18, well, I was 18 years old, I remember it clear as day. Yeah. My first dealings with it. And, you know, we was already taking other substances, we were smoking weed, we were sniffing coke, drinking, you know, gambling with air, and there was other stuff going on, but we were sort of, the other stuff were party drugs, you know, sort of young lad stuff that you're doing, if that makes sense. I was looking back and taking my mindset. You know, there was mental health there, for sure. Anxiety and depression, you know, very, very miserable. Hated my job. Struggled financially. You know, just weren't happy in life. You know, didn't have a purpose. And I was just sort of plodding on, just going to work, living for the weekend, as a lot of people do. And that was all right for a period of time. But, you know, I was getting to 18-year-old and some of my mates are doing all right in their careers and, you know, they're moving forward and I'm just stuck in this, in this rut, you know.
SPEAKER_01:What were you doing? Were you working, so to say?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, so at 18 I'd have been ground working. All right, okay. Yeah, and I just fell into the jobs that I did when I was younger. I was a joiner, an apprentice joiner, fell into it because someone offered it to me. Then ground work, same again, someone said, I can get you in on this. Money sounded good, so I followed the money. It was simple as that. now it was miserable you know I hated my job and I think it's quite important because there's so many people that are going to work that hate the jobs but then they're just waiting for Friday to come around so that they can go to pub or yeah and it's quite sad really you know when you think that you're at work five days a week some people more and then five days you don't really want to be there you're miserable you're not getting job satisfaction you kind of it makes sense that when a weekend's come you want to have a release you want that break and that you know and that dissociation which is what i found in ketamine now yeah i got introduced to it um it was literally this simple i got a text message of somebody who died and a few weeks back, a couple of months back now in addiction, which is quite powerful, but sad. And all it said were, I've got some ketamine there if anyone wants it. That was it. Never heard about it. I didn't have a clue about it. You know, if someone would have said, what is it? I'd have said, not sure, no idea. I'd have known you sniffed it, but I couldn't have told you the first thing about what it did, the harms, anything, you know, anyone who even took it. And there was a festival the day after. So me and my mate said, yeah, go on, you know, younger now. naive. You think that you're invincible at that age, don't you? And we had it the night before. And I remember feeling just that disassociation. It did exactly what it tells you it's going to do if you research it. And I disassociated from reality completely. And any worries that I had going on, you know, anything that were worrying men, mental health problems, deaths, whatever it could have been at that period of time, just disappeared. It vanished for probably 40 minutes if you're looking back off the top of my head. And that's the dangerous thing, you know, when, especially in hindsight as well, I wasn't aware of the stuff that I am now looking back, you know. I wasn't aware of how miserable I actually were because you're in that cycle or you're going to work. Yeah, yeah, Groundhog Day. Yeah, and it was that. It was Groundhog Day every day and every weekend and just plodding through aimlessly. So when I took this and I got that peace of mind, that quiet spell, that disassociation, that comfort,
SPEAKER_01:So is it like a high or anything? For someone who doesn't know that much about ketamine and anyone who may be watching this or a concerned parent or whatever, is it like a high or is it just, like you said, are you just... Can you tell me a little bit about how that feeling is? I know you've mentioned... So is it just like it just blocks everything out? Any sort of worries that are going on? It just evaporates? Is that sort of how it... Because you said you were going to a festival, you see, so I'm just trying to... associated too
SPEAKER_00:yeah it's quite funny really because when you actually look at what type of drug it is how it makes you feel and you know it's an hallucinogenic so you actually can trip off it it's not really a drug that you'd associate with going to festivals because at a festival you want something that's going to make you up make you dance make you love dope or you know your ecstasies and the things people take at festivals gaming's different it's it's more of a downer so you take it and you know you slouch out You know, you don't want to be up dancing about. You're sort of dead relaxed. It's like being... To someone who's not took it, who's had a drink, it's like being really, really drunk. Yeah. But... Obviously, it's hard to describe. It's like being really drunk, but when you're drunk, you're kind of in control. I know you can lose control and black out, and it's more the blackout stage of being drunk. You're kind of in the moment, you're aware of what's going on, but you're out of it. But then when you come around, you've no recollection of anything that you've said, done, felt, which I think is the other side of it, which is quite, it's like a spontaneous kind of drug to start off with. so yeah it's an illusionogenic so you can trip off it you know if you take enough whatever your tolerance is you will visually trip and see things and and that For the first few times I took it, that scared me. I didn't like it because I've always took drugs where, you know, your cocaine, cannabis, MDMA, you know, where I've never really tripped. I've had little, kind of little sort of experiences, but I've took ketamine. And first couple of times, because I was sort of wary, I didn't have loads, but excuse me, as time went on, obviously start upping it. And I started getting these trips, excuse me, And it was scary. I didn't like it for her. Probably, I usually say it's about the 10th time when I started sort of getting used to this visual stuff that I was seeing when I was on my own. When I was taking it, when I was out and about at festivals in town or wherever I were, you're almost, because you're tripping, you're kind of aware that you're in public or you're around people. I don't know, what am I doing? Kind of a weird feeling. So I thought that's where the isolation started because I started thinking, I wonder what this would be like on my own. let me try it on my own and there's no one around and no one's safe and I'm in a nice environment you know the two people say with psychedelics you know people lose their heads on the door they can stay in trips and all sorts of stuff can happen and I sort of knew that so I thought right let me put myself in a safe environment let me feel that comfort and that peace and the disassociation and see how I think you know the visuals are and I loved it and this is a this is a green light for anyone to take it because we'll go on to talk about the realities of but for a period of time Ketamine did something for me that I didn't really know I needed but at the time it was brilliant for me you know like I said the disassociation from reality I didn't know how much I needed it I didn't know how miserable I was
SPEAKER_01:what sort of stuff you say you didn't know how miserable you were what sort of things if you don't mind sort of sharing what was it that you really felt like you needed to take this just to disassociate yourself from it was it wasn't the fact that you were going to work and you didn't like it was it was it just that or was it was it a wider scope thing was it you know
SPEAKER_00:yeah do you know what everything so even now you know I'm over a year sober and still some days I struggle to cope with reality I do I've got different ways of coping now back then I didn't know nobody's ever shown me how to deal with emotions how to sort of manage them what they even are you know money finances didn't have a clue about it I'm dead um I'm rash with spending I'll just buy stuff and then sell it buy it and you know so that was an issue definitely anxiety that was massive I've always had anxiety didn't really know what it were just always felt uncomfortable in certain positions and worried about stuff and overthinking and just it becomes part of who you are so you don't really you I think when you can't, at that age, you're not having the conversations with your friends to see, do you think this? And does this happen with you? You're young. You're not going to sit down and say, do you overthink about everything? And do you sometimes get a bit depressed? And does this? Talk about feelings to other guys. It's not happening, is it? It's not happening. So, you know, there's a bunch of things. And yeah, I just struggled with reality in general. I always thought I always had no purpose. That was a massive one for me you know it's almost like I say it's groundhog day and I've realised that now more than ever which we'll talk about what I'm doing these days and that is where I realise how much purpose means to me and how much I need purpose but you know I had none of that you know I had a good group of friends around me a good family you know that's important to mention quite a dysfunctional family which I'll openly talk about you know there was addiction and mental health and stuff that had been around for a quite a young age and carried on through probably part of the reason why some of my thinking were the way it were some of my self beliefs were the way they were that's not me blaming anyone you know because I don't ever blame anybody you know I picked up the first substance the first drink drug and you know, so it's not me blaming, but it definitely has an impact. It's got it on it. Yeah. You know, I believe it does the way you brought up and the environments and what you see. You become, you know, you become your environment, don't you? Of course. So, yeah, there was quite a few factors really, but yeah, that's the thing. It's the purpose and just struggling to cope and just sort of thinking what is the point in life if all I'm going to do is wake up and go to work and come home and go to bed and wake up and go to work what's the point there's no satisfaction and then I'm going out on a weekend and taking it too far ending up in debt because you know at this point it's cocaine as well you know cocaine sort of commanding and catching me along my journey now obviously slightly off topic cocaine affects you mentally a lot faster than ketamine does ketamine is more physically quicker but now because I'm taking both he's looking at physical and mental you know and when I used to take cocaine you know it used to put me I never used to buzz off it massively it used to bring me to quite a normal level where I was quite chilled out which is kind of weird the come downs would be really really bad you know I'd be suicidal but then because I've remembered the up at the start of it and want to take more and more and I became addicted to that even younger than 18 to be fair so yeah there's all kinds of stuff going on you know you've got the weed smoking weed from a young age so you're looking the first time I picked up a substance that you know with weed give you that little bit a piece and peace of mind and whatever you want to call it I was on it I was addicted cocaine came around I was addicted so I'm wanting to escape from something from a young
SPEAKER_01:age yeah it sounds like it sounds like a self-medication isn't it it almost like you're trying to mask your emotions your feelings your anxiety by using substances uh to to take you away from those is that would that be fair thing to say then yeah
SPEAKER_00:yeah yeah spot on spot on then
SPEAKER_01:so so you but you just going back a little bit you mentioned that um that when you first started taking ketamine uh you were a bit scared at first and you only had like a little bit what what kind i And I think, did you say you didn't quite enjoy it at the beginning? What made you then just think, well, I'll try it again and I'll try it again? Were you like sort of hooked on it straight away or was it just more of like a social thing? It's what was going past around and you just kind of got used to it. Is that what happened or is it like what made you get that confidence to keep at it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so this, I speak about it quite often and I don't know if a lot of people identify with it. I don't know if it's, If it's an actual real thing, I don't know, but I genuinely believe this is the reason. So I think, obviously, our subconscious brain, or whatever you want to call it, subconscious, is very powerful, isn't it? I believe that my brain on a subconscious level stores the feeling of disassociation and comfort and all the stuff we've talked about. I really do believe that. And now I'm relating that substance to that feeling, because that's what we do, don't we? We relate to the feeling it gives us. Yeah. that's my that's my thought theory on it because it don't make sense and you know you can speak to a lot of people Ben and they'll say they'll say yeah I didn't like it for quite a period of time so it's like it don't really make sense what this must be something about what you like to keep taking it you know it's I know it's a substance and it's a drug but yeah there's got to be something about it that you like because you know some people can take it or leave it so that tells me that it's got to be that it's so association factor and a lot of people agree with me but you know there's also some people that don't quite understand what what I mean by it does that make sense
SPEAKER_01:yeah yeah definitely yeah it totally does so you so you were talking about obviously you were taking it on a more regular basis you're mixing it with cocaine what when did it just get to I presume then it would have probably spilled into I don't know uh having an impact on maybe certain relationships or your work what can you tell us a little bit more when it was maybe getting a little bit like, all right, this is getting out of hand now. I presume that's what happened because that's where we are now.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, of course it is. So it's funny, I remember the exact day that we would have first been introduced. That would have been around the 15th of July, 2018. I'm going to say, talk about... It's a long time ago and a lot's happened. I've took a lot of substances. My brain's been... Sometimes my dates might not... That date's definitely right, but sometimes my timelines might not match up. So if anyone ever picks up on stuff, it's not that I'm lying, believe me. It's just it's a long time ago. So I'm going to say it took about... Between six months to a year, the first six months, it stayed the same. I was getting what I needed from it. I was still managing to work, you know, and sort of mask it and live a normal life outside looking in. I probably had my stuff together. But obviously... things it's a ticking time bomb that good part doesn't last long does it with any addiction um you know so that's very important that i talk about that because some people could listen to this and think oh you get this disassociating and believe me now that that doesn't last longer at all and even while it's lasting things are going on in the background that you're just not aware about so you're really not worth the the period of time you know that six months of disassociation and comfort has ruined probably five or six years you know when you do the maths and put it on a sort of weighing scale so Within about six months to a year, you know, for me, the first things that sort of started was financially, you know. I had a decent job. I was earning good money at 18. I had my own car that I paid off just to run around, nothing fancy. I lived at home, so I paid quite a little bit, you know, a little amount of board. So I had quite a lot of sort of spare cash knocking around. So... I was keeping up for a period of time, but obviously, as things are going on, my using's going on, so I'm buying more. The days that I'm using's going on and on, and the next thing I'm using every day. So it got to the point then where I'm getting my wage on a Friday, I'm paying my bills, and they're already all 300 quid out. So that goes, then you're getting another 300 quid take, and so on and so on. Can
SPEAKER_01:I just ask, when you say you owed 300 pounds, is that because you were already taking more than you could afford the previous weekend or something? Oh, I'll pay it, on Monday or whatever or Friday or whatever yeah and then it kind of sort of spirals
SPEAKER_00:exactly that so you know at this point I'm not crippled with pain so I'm still going out with my mates we're still doing bits of festivals and nights out so you're spending two three hundred quid a year wage on a Saturday night on coke and beer and the rest of it but you've got this addiction now in the background that all of a sudden when you could afford the two three hundred quid you can't now because you've got that again during week so you know you you're living, living beyond your means in a nutshell. So yeah, I'm spending half my wage on a Saturday night, but you know, Tuesday, Wednesday, I'm back getting lay ons again, you know, so, and back then when I, when we're talking, it was a lot dearer than what it is now, you know, you're talking 70 quid for, for three and a half grand for an age, which you could go through, you know, in pretty much a night, you know, to a certain point that obviously went up and up, but yeah. So 70, even if it lasted two nights. It's a lot of money when you're only on 500 quid a week. I couldn't find that type of money now. I don't know how I found it, but I did. You become resourceful, don't you? So yeah, the finance thing started, and then I'd say about maybe, again, six months to a year, somewhere along them lines, I started getting the kept cramps. Now, Very bittersweet looking back in hindsight again because, and again, a lot of people will agree with this, without the physical pain... I really cannot honestly say that I'd be sad to you, genuinely. And it sounds quite selfish because it's stuff I put my family through, all the mental health, the other sides of stuff. But that's me being completely honest. I was that trapped in it. I don't know if the other stuff would have been enough. I needed the pain. I needed the other stuff we're going to talk about in a minute to happen, as well as the other factors, the other consequences for me to change. So the cat cramp started, and this is It started off, and from the get-go, it was absolutely awful. Can you just
SPEAKER_01:explain what that is? What is a kick cramp? Stomach pains, is it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so bladder or stomach. So you can get stomach ulcers from ket. If you're taking tablets especially, you know, if you're taking your ibuprofen, paracetamol for the pain, you can end up with stomach ulcers, but it's mainly the bladder. My understanding is obviously you're taking the ketamine, you know, you're sniffing it, it's going down and it goes into your bladder and rather than passing through, it attaches to the gag layer, it's called, of your bladder and it's literally corroding it, melting it. Yeah, yeah. We hear quite a bit about that, don't we? Yeah. So my understanding is that pain we're feeling is literally our bladder burning, you know, not in terms of like, I mean, physically burning. You can imagine that's not going to feel great. And that's what it is. It is an absolute burning, stinging. I say it quite a lot. It's like the way I can describe it, and I've never had this done to me, but you can imagine how painful it will be. It's like having a knife heated up with a blowtorch till it goes blue you know with your metal when it goes blue to sort of melting point whatever they call it and it's like having that just stuck in your bladder and just twisted and twisted and twisted really really painful you know it had me some of the positions it had me in it had me curled up like a baby you know I'd use another word but it's probably not suitable yeah rolling around with tears in my eyes I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy it is an absolute it is a horrible horrible pain now this happened quite soon really when you look at the length of other addictions not to compare but you know you look at I've been taking cocaine for years and not really my nose went knackered and the money side and one thing and another the mental health but in terms of actual physical to your body takes quite a period of time whereas this is a thing we can't have any done you're in next thing you know you're in A&E and yeah and it progressed did that and then I started I was passing blood in my urine. And I remember the first time I was sinning. Now, at this point, you know, we're talking 2019, 2020, maybe. I mean, I'm wrapped up now. You know, I just know, I'm not dipping me so often and doing it a few days a week. I mean, you know, it's full time. I remember seeing a bit of blood in my urine and I did everything I could to try and justify it. I'm thinking, right, it's an infection. It's from this, it's from that. All kinds of excuses like we do. The last thing I'm going to do is tell myself that's from like every week because then you're going to start looking at it. So that happened. And excuse me. That just progressed quickly. You know, I mean, spells at first, I got toilet, bit of blood, couple of days, it wouldn't happen. I'd keep using, then it had happened. Then it got to the point where it pretty much every time I went to toilet, there's blood. And it's quite scary because it became more normal for me to see blood than not see blood. I'd be more shocked if there were no blood in toilet than if there were blood. Sad stuff, really. And then the jelly started coming. Now, when we're talking about the burning and the gag layer being melted or whatever, want to call it that's then what we see coming out in the urine is literally your bladder lining and the first time I seen that I thought phew it scared me. It really scared me. You know, it was almost, it weren't massive. Towards the end, they got bigger. Just a little, it was almost like, probably that big, which is big enough to come out in your private and through your mouth. Covered in blood. You know, it's quite graphic, so I apologise, but this is the real, you know. Yeah, it's reality, yeah. Covered in blood with spots of blood around it and I sit here. And I did the same thing. I thought, that's not come out of me. That's not, you know, come out of my privates. And I'm thinking, where else could it have come from I'm looking at the ceiling thinking trying everything to sort of bypass the fact that I've done this to myself and it sort of and I tried ignoring it and I thought yeah it is what it is it's an infection flushed toilet off I went straight away back on ket you know because now on a level I know that's from me so I googled it you know and this is quite a scary thought really I thought let me have a look at this ketamine so now I've been taking it like I said probably over a year maybe a year somewhere in between and I thought let me google it now it's scary the fact that an 18 year old 19 year old you're willing to put a substance in your body without even Googling it in the first place. And this is where, you know, how long my answer is. It's very naive. It's silly. We know, I knew it were a drug and I know drugs are dangerous. So, you know, it is what it is. I made a mistake. I made, you know, several mistakes. And I Googled it. And the first few pages on Google, I remember going through three, probably more than three pages right down. And out of all the stories, you can imagine how long the pages on Google carted along. Out of all three pages, I remember seeing about two negative stories and there was something to know. Every other story about it, every other bit of research or whatever it might have been was positive. It was, it's great for anxiety and depression. It's great for alcohol withdrawals. Psychiatrists are using it to treat this PTSD and all these amazing, all in America, you know, but, so you can imagine as an addict you're fixating me on that yeah yeah big green light in it so i'm thinking right sweet so anyone who pulls me now i'll show them that and i'll say look i've got anxiety i've got depression i'm self-medicating and away i went you know um excuse me so But yeah, so that was that then. I was off rails and the blood and the jelly carried on and the pains became more frequent. And I quickly realised that no matter how many painkillers I took, I got all sorts of doctors, codeine.
SPEAKER_01:Did you tell the doctors that you were taking ketamine or were you just kind of
SPEAKER_00:used different excuses? No. So I slipped a disc in my back at work. Right. Kind of relevant really, but sometimes I talk about it, sometimes I don't. I slipped a disc in my back and I had really bad sciatica so I was going to the doctor about that and first of all they gave me paracetamol ibuprofen which is partly why I got a stomach ulcer with the cat on top and in the end they started chucking me painkillers you know I was going that much and they could see how much agony I was in they started throwing me quite strong painkillers so I'm thinking, right, it's two in one. I'll take these. I'll have them on my bladder. Google some of them, see what they did, and some of them should have helped with the bladder and other stuff. So I'm doubling up, taking four, doing a pack in a couple of days when it should have lasted a week or two or whatever it is, taking care with it to get an extra heart. And that, again, is quite important because you've got so many young people now with cross addictions. And I'm not blaming doctors here. I'm really not. But doctors don't know what to do. So they say, right, we'll give you these. Some of the tablets that young people are getting given at the minute are scary. They're strong, opiate tablets. And they're boozing it. Yeah. But you're giving them to an addict, you know. And most of them are openly going to the doctor and admitting the ketamine addicts. But because the doctors just don't know what to do, all they can do is give you some painkillers. And they're not giving them lower end. They're giving them top, you know, gabapentin and all kinds of mad stuff. Which, again, there's no blame, you know. think it does need looking at and reassessing and hopefully I don't know that's not my department anyway so yes I'm taking all these painkillers and nothing's working now I very quickly realised that if I make a bigger line than usual that's what works you know because ketamine's a painkiller you know if you brought your leg if you brought your leg now an ambulance come the chances are they'd give you ketamine for the pain you know and in a controlled environment environment speaking to some professionals from nhs over there they said it's a great drug in a controlled environment in its pure form you know so let's not get them too mixed up because that's what i did early on off the back of my race my bias research so yeah just to clear that up they can't mean you're getting on the streets it's not what they're using in hospitals veterans psychiatry you know it's not so don't ever you know don't kid yourself like i did um
SPEAKER_01:i mean i'm I've read this somewhere as well, is that because people are in so much pain with the stomach and what have you, they're just taking ketamine on top because that's what masks it. But that's just making it even worse, isn't it? So it's just a cycle, isn't it, is doing that. So I guess in your experience then, so you're talking around about that stage. Did you say that was probably into a year of taking ketamine? Where did it start becoming like, you know what, this is not helping me? Did your family members caught on to what's going on? What happened in terms of your social environment? Did you start not going out as much? Can you talk to me a little bit about your relationships and how that may have worsened over the course
SPEAKER_00:of the pandemic? them in use. Yeah, of course. So, yeah, you know, by this point now, let's say we're between a year and two years and somewhere in between. Yes. Now I'm completely isolated. You know, there's none of the nights out that I spoke about earlier in the festivals. I'm isolated. My mates are going on their holidays, doing the good stuff. I'm skin, you know, my mental health is absolutely battered. My physical health is battered. I'm running to the toilet every 15, 20 minutes, maybe. On a bad day, it can be less than that, you know. so even if I wanted to do this stuff I couldn't I couldn't travel to airport or go on a night out you know I'd end up
SPEAKER_01:waiting why is that is it because your bladder can't hold as much urine or is it just is it just the pain that you feel like you need to release all the time is that how it is that how it usually cycles
SPEAKER_00:so your bladder shrinks right you know not 100% sure on the science behind it but obviously you've got all the stuff it's mixed with as well so it's drinks your bladder. So these people, I talked to one the other day whose bladder holds 30 mil. And I believe a healthy bladder should hold about 500 mils. It might be a little bit more. It might be 750. Could be wrong on that. Don't quote me, but it's a lot more. It's over 10 times more. So yeah, 30 mils. Most people you speak to who are looking at rehabs and getting help, it holds about 50 mils. And that's the effect it's having on bladders, they shrink into... That's the reality, isn't it? Some of them are shrinking to, I believe, you know, your bladder's it's not a tiny, tiny organ, it's probably maybe that big, and you shrink into that, you know, scary, again, scary, scary stuff, so there's, there's young people having bladder stretches, neo-bladder surgery, which is where they take part of your intestine, and sort of graft your bladder, you know, build it back up, there's people that, I think 17 is the youngest I've heard that's having or had that. Might be 18, but there's loads that are younger that are on waiting lists that are looking at help because of their ages. They don't really want to do it and messy, really messy stuff. so yeah so all my relationships yeah at this point they battered they deteriorated I'm isolating so I'm not seeing I live with my stepdad well I did I'm not seeing my mum and dad I'm not seeing my grandma my niece who's my best mate not really seeing her and if I do it's once every three weeks and I'm going and it's like lip service nipping it I'm saying you know now I'm going back to use where I'm comfortable where I'm in tech and I'm not in pain where I feel safe you know because you're out and about and I felt exposed but like everybody knew that I was teching it and everyone was just disgusted with me even people I didn't know on the street I said this again it's quite self-obsessed really but it's not in an egotistical way it's in the complete opposite it's in a way of like that is how low I felt so yeah my relationships are absolutely terrible you know my stepdad excuse me who I lived with he'd had a stroke a couple of years, well, somewhere in between. I was still using when he had the stroke and it lost use one side of his body. And he used to drag his cell upstairs to come and check that I were alive, come and knock on my bedroom door. And he's told me this since he just want to hear me say a word. So they had peace of mind that was still alive. Then he'd tell my mum, yeah, I spoke to him, he's all right. Then she'd tell my dad, you know, so on and so forth. And that happened for a long period of time. Now, while all this is happening, I'm that much in my own world. I'm not even aware how worried people are and just how bad I really am to an extent. It's like we said earlier, when you're living a life, that becomes your normal. And when you're not seeing other people, what they're doing, you just end up in your own little world and you really are in your own world. You're blind. You've no idea what's going on. you know we see stuff and now I don't watch news and stuff like that but you hear it on radio and you hear conversations so you get a bit of a feeling of what's going on you've no idea when you're in that world you're literally so out of touch the only thing you're bothered about is getting more care you know and that's addiction in general so yeah me relationships were really really terrible
SPEAKER_01:well in terms of did you get anyone who came up to you and say yes then mate you need some help mate What was your immediate reaction to that? What were you thinking? I don't need any help. I can deal with this. Or did you know at that time you needed
SPEAKER_00:help? Bit of both. Dead defensive, like we are originally. Really defensive, which made it hard for people to approach me. You know, it wouldn't have been a conversation thing. You know, you've lost a lot of weight. I've heard this. This is happening. I'm not going to then say I'm struggling. Maybe I do need help. But now I'm all right. And that's what I said. I'm all right every time. And even at this point, I knew I wanted help. But I was that trapped in it, I could not see a way out. So even the word helped me with that icon. That's not going to work for me. I'm different. Nobody else is in this position because, again, you're not hearing the stories, the word, the exposure that there is now where you can go on TikTok and Instagram
SPEAKER_01:and
SPEAKER_00:see all these amazing people that have got clean and sober. You know, none of that. There were, but you're talking more for alcohol and coke and all the other stuff. You don't identify. There was nobody saying this happened with my bladder, my liver, my kidneys, this, this, this. And you think, oh, it's not just me. They've changed. So I can do none of it. At that point, I thought I was the only person. And again, it sounds quite selfish and self-obsessed, but I just weren't seeing it. I didn't know anyone. And yeah, and that went on for a little bit where people every now and then would pull me, give me a little nudge and say, Finn, you're looking a bit skinner. Your hair's a bit long. You've let yourself go a bit. Thank you. cars being soldered by you know i'd sell my car wake on a monday no work because my back's gone on my bladder's killing and just sell a car so you weren't working at this stage then at this sort of point no in and out i always worked in and out when i could work i'd be at work yeah well there was periods of times where i was in genuinely in that much pain i could not work you know i couldn't get out of bed some days um with the back the back were a big issue as well my mates will tell you i had a limp for quite a period of time. Really, really bad it was. This sciatica and this slipped disc. That stopped me because I was a ground worker. Nothing you can do with a slipped disc and sciatica. So yeah, I was sort of bouncing from job to job. Got sacked from a lot of them. I was unreliable, you know. You couldn't rely on me to turn up on any day of the week. A lot of people duck on Monday. Every day was a Monday for me. You know, if I woke up and I was in pain or I'd sniffed too much or whatever, I'd just duck. No, no consideration for the lads who would give me work you know just you become selfish you become very very selfish um you know that's not a reflection of me as a person in fact i'd argue that i'm the complete opposite but that's who i became i became yeah yeah a lot of very negative traits um i'm not proud of who i became but i flicked it around now so i am proud
SPEAKER_01:yeah so so obviously we talked a lot about some of the impact that kevin's had on year not just physical but the relationships as well what what what is that turning point what can you talk to me about what that turning point looked like for you to to make that change
SPEAKER_00:yeah yeah so the turning point for me was was a build-up of all the consequences the pain finance the stuff from my family you know getting phone calls off my parents telling me that they don't want to be here anymore they're planning my funeral um my stepdad dragging the sell upstairs, not seeing other people in weeks. There were all kinds of stories and stuff that went on that I forget most of them, Ben, and it sounds quite cold, but that much happened. I've genuinely forgot so much. If I went and spoke to someone in my family, my mum would probably tell me about 100 things that I did off the top of her head. So that was a turning point. Now, this is quite an important thing to speak about, so I'll whittle it down. I tried to go into rehab in 2021. The reason I went into rehab was because my mum and dad, my family, everyone around me now, they were picking up on stuff, conversations were being had, not even within my family externally. I'd be nipping to the shop for something or I'd be going to pick up and someone would see me and go, bloody outfit, you know, I've heard that you're not doing so well or I get messages, I hope you're good, you can speak to me anytime, you know, that sort of stuff. And it was patronising and I thought, wow, people are picking up on it, this is getting normal. So my mum my dad mentioned rehab and and on art now the main reason I went in the first place was the pain but also my family there wasn't much of the reason I went there was for me not much of me was ready to change did I want to change of course I did it was miserable but You know, did I have the burning desire to do it? No. And I believe you need that. You need it to get a sort of a long-term recovery. You need that burning desire to say, I'm done. And I didn't have it. I didn't know what it were. You know, I wasn't aware of it. I didn't understand recovery or addiction. I just thought, let me try it. Go and give it a whirl. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. That was my attitude. Went in, did three months, come back home, did another three months sober and relapsed. Now the importance thing is, when I got back from rehab, everybody told me, do your meetings, get wrapped around recovery, get connection, you know, honesty, all the stuff that we're taught to practice in the rooms and in treatments, treatment centers, and I did none of it. I went back and I started chasing money. You know, rather than going out drinking and stuff, I was chasing money. I was working, I was a coach boxing, so we're doing loads of one-to-ones, chasing money, trying to save up for a car. Now, out this again that was my purpose was to save up for this car the minute I bought that car a purpose had gone I didn't have another purpose that's when I struggled and I burnt out I carried on just burning out didn't do any recovery and I relapsed and yeah went off the rails and for quite a period of time with cocaine but also obviously ketamine caused a lot more damage a lot more consequences and then I did another couple in between same story as the first one people on it there the tears that I've seen people Yeah, sure. It is because some people think you get in recovery, you get clean, you live an amazing life. And, you know, for some people, that is true. Some people get recovery the first time. There's a lot of people that struggle the first time, second time, even third, fourth, fifth time. Yeah. You know, now that's not me giving people a green light to say if it's your first time going relapse, it's really, really not because you might want to get it the first time. However, it's a part of some people's journeys and it were a part of mine, you know, and I needed them experience then bits of rehabs and, you know, the stuff in between to get to where I am today. I honestly believe that. 2024, It's quite mad, this, you know, and this isn't me. I don't ever add things on for, like, special effects or for power. I really don't. I say it as it were and as it is. I woke up this day. It was coming to an end. I could feel that, you know, the using now had really, really stopped working. I weren't even getting the pain relief as such. I weren't getting the disassociation. I was just going through the motions, and I was taking a lot of it. I was gaining loads of data. Pretty much anyone in Burnley that sold or sells care, I bought money you know at one at one point or another same with Cork as well they had loads so you know I was in a bad way and the people around me had made it that hard for me to use you know my mates had run around saying stop serving him or this is going to happen to you stop doing this you know and it became really hard for me to use because the phone were ringing that much on people checking in on me and if I didn't answer someone else would be ringing and it became so hard for me to use it became like a real real chore all because I'd use and be paranoid thinking right who's gonna see me who's gonna then ring me and ask if I've used I'm gonna have to be honest with them and you know and all this sort of stuff and I woke up this one day Ben and I had that fire I had this fire in my belly I literally were weird and again I'm not adding any effects this is as it were woke up And I stood up. I remember opening my curtains, my blinds, and I felt this thing in my belly say, I'm done. I'm completely done. And I rung my mum and I said, Mum, I'm done. I've had enough. I'm done with it. You can imagine how many times I've had that conversation. So my mum probably thought, of course you are. She never said that to me. She supported me. She said, right, do something. Act on it now. Ring somebody. Do this. You know, deep down, she probably thought, all right, Finlay. She probably didn't want to get her hopes up. So, you know, she passed me some numbers on ring these ask these this we've rung a few people and by this point you know you've got to think I've done a couple of rehabs I've probably had thousands in funded I've wasted it so to therapists they probably think You know, they're probably not taking me serious. But anyway, started with Inspire going up, doing me. In fact, that were already going on. That was already in the pipeline. But rehab weren't mentioned because
SPEAKER_01:I'd
SPEAKER_00:already done two or three, four props possibly. I'm thinking that don't work for me. And yeah, that was it. It was already going on. I was seeing my key worker. We were having conversations. Nothing were really happening, but I was seeing her. And this fire started in the building. I thought, right, I'm done. Anyway, when I next had my key worker session, I said, look, I want to go back to rehab. when the woman said... You've had a couple of things. You might struggle with funding. You need to prove why. And I said, look, I've been coming to my key work sessions. I promise you now, I'm sick and tired of it. Anyway, you know, a couple of weeks went by, months, whatever it might have been, and it come up, did rehab. And me, attitude difference between the first time and this time was chalk and cheese. I said, you know what? I will do anything it takes. The first time I went into an AAC, ANA meeting, and I looked at all the differences. They're into alcohol. They're into crap. This, this. this and this this time around I said I don't care whatever I've got to do I'll do it it's not about that makes me uncomfortable or that's not going to work because I've tried my way and that doesn't work let me try someone else's way and I did and I went in and I put my head down and I put all my effort into my work in therapy and I went to as many meetings as I could and I got service and I got a sponsor and I did the steps and I did everything that people tell you to do and it worked You know, and then off the back of that, we settled Ketman Education Services, which is what we're doing now, you know. We settled one meeting, then another, then things spiralled. And, you know, now we've got one, two, four online meetings, an in-person meeting. We're going to schools, colleges. We talk to staff, prisons, NHSs, NHS buildings, hospitals. you know, group chats and all sorts. We've got our own documentary started filming on Tuesday. We're doing all sorts, absolutely everything, not everything, but we're doing as much as I possibly can to try. What's the name of it again, sorry? Ketamine Education Services or KES, KES.E.S. You know, now, so earlier on when I mentioned purpose and I said I've come back to it, now is helping people. It's used in my experience, hence why I'm on here today. It's using my experience and the pain that I felt to hopefully, I can't change the world. You know, I'm not going to sit here and say, I've saved all these people and I've done this because they haven't. But we offer a safe space for people to come and have a chat. We signpost people into our group chats, into other services. I use my experience with people and I go into one-to-one work with some people in community. We do one-to-one stuff and we've had some good results. Of course, we have you know some people have got clean off the back of our groups and made a couple of people's helps that you know that volunteered out with us and you know, and that's my purpose now. So when I talked about purpose, that's what I was. Yeah. That's a driving force,
SPEAKER_01:isn't it? It's what drives you to get up in the morning and stuff like that. No, it sounds like really, really valuable work that you're doing there. And just to put a bit of perspective on it then, um, cause you said, did you just, was it right? Did you start in 2018? Your chem and use, did you say? So, okay. So 2018, so six, seven years after what, what sort of, um, what, does the scope look like in terms of ketamine use from then until now? What's the difference? Is there a lot more usage going on now? Or could you give us a bit more of an insight on what you're kind of looking at right now in comparison to then?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So it was an issue in 2018. It was a big issue going off the lads sort of who I were getting it off. It weren't just me buying it. However, I wasn't aware who was buying it, where it was
SPEAKER_01:coming
SPEAKER_00:from, anything about it. It was in around 2019, 2020 when things started unfolding a little bit. People started sort of because they've seen me picking it up off someone or, you know, and that started unfolding. But as sports people, these people's been taking it 10 years, you know, at least for synthesising something like 1958, something crazy used in World War II or one or whatever, whatever it were back then. So it's been around a long, long time. But yeah, from 2018 to now, I genuinely cannot put into words, you know, I speak to on a weekly basis, some weeks it's hundreds of people, but on average, about 100 and 200 people parents, family, friends, users, ex-users and some of the stories they hear and they're telling me that their cousin uses it and their friend uses it and I go on to these talks Ben and every talk that I do if it's to staff there's 10 people there that message me after probably not 10 5 or 10 my son's using it or my son X, Y and Z using it everywhere I go no matter what it is whether it's prison, school, college, university a Staff talks, probation, social workers, everybody has got a child that's using it or somebody very, very close that's using it. And I believe you can go in any setting and there's somebody that knows somebody that's using it. That's a scary thought. Scary. Now, we're going to schools. We started going into secondary schools. This is very telling of the size of the issue. We started going into secondary schools as what we thought were going to be prevention. I think prevention is a massive, massive part of it. Intervention is brilliant and rehabilitation because people need it and they deserve it. But if you're not doing the intervention, the problem never goes away, does it? You know, as you know, probably more than me. Now, we went in thinking we'll try and send a message on and we'll create, you know, a good sort of level of intervention sorry prevention we started going in these secondary schools And the amount of kids that, on a one-to-one, I'd speak to them and they'd say, yeah, I've took ket or I've taken ket. Weed and vape pens, they tell me they smoke them like they tell me they drink a cup of tea. That is so casual, you know. Back when we were doing it in school, the whole show, nobody really knew. We knew. We didn't tell anyone. Now it's just a standard thing, you know. They talk about it's so casual, but the ket, you know, and it became very, very apparent very quickly that, hold on a minute, we're coming in here to hopefully prevent these young people from getting into it but actually it's going to be more intervention work than prevention so I honestly believe you're already on
SPEAKER_01:it
SPEAKER_00:yeah they're on it you can't prevent something that's already started can you it goes without saying so I believe that we need to be going into year five possibly year five but year six
SPEAKER_01:is
SPEAKER_00:that the sort of
SPEAKER_01:age yeah sorry I might sound like I'm really naive here but wow so what age is that like 14 is it
SPEAKER_00:younger so I I think they're 13, 14 in year seven and eight, I believe. The amount of, you know, there's stories I can tell you of people that have come up to me in school. There was a young lad who was 13, a young girl, 14. There's loads that just pops up off the top of my head and just come up casually and tell me that they're sniffing quite a lot as well, quite a big amount because of the price. You know, when I was sniffing it in 2018, 2019, it was 70 quid for three and a half gram. If I were to go out now down by that, it'd be 25 quid tops, top end.
SPEAKER_01:Right, so obviously price is the driving force as to why it's readily available. And I guess it's easy to get hold of, if anyone wants it.
SPEAKER_00:Very, very easy. I did something quite frustrating, really. And again, I'm not name-dropping or blaming anyone, but I did something with a media company, we'll call them. And we did an interview and he said, how easy is it to get hold of? And I showed him something that I used to do so So when I was still working, well, there was a period when I went working away to try and get away from it. It was like in my head a detox. Now, people will try that. They'll try the holidays. We try everything externally, don't we, to try and stop using. I went working in Scotland and first thing I did when we finished work, we think I need some care or some coke. And there was a certain technique, we'll call it, that I used on a certain social media platform that I could get hold of it anywhere. Now I told this media team and I said, please do not put that on air because you're showing people now this is how you get out of it. And this guy said, no, no, no, we won't, we won't. And I said, right, good. So I showed him. Fast forward a couple of weeks, maybe a month or two, the same media channel had brought something out and the exact thing that I'd showed this bloke was being shown, actually physically shown. So now anyone that watches that that's in addiction, who does go on holiday, goes away, now knows to get it. They can get it. And you can get it anywhere in country, Ben, literally. It's like Uber Eats or something. Exactly that. Exactly that. Yeah. So that gives you a little bit of an idea. You know, I worked all over Lake Street, Scotland, down south, right up north, everywhere. Yeah. And I could get it. Give me half an hour, maybe an hour tops on a bad day, and I'd get it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:What I wanted to ask you is if you could go back and say something to your younger version of yourself, what would it be that you would say before you started taking ketamine? What would you say just before
SPEAKER_00:you was to take that ketamine? I'd say that recovery is possible for anyone. I'd want to give myself that hope because again, you're in such a dark place and You know, now, like I said, there is some positive influences out there. There's people talking out and a lot of what we do, sharing the positive and the hope. Back then there wasn't. And even if they were, you feel different to the people that can change. I tell myself that recovery is possible for anybody. It doesn't matter. Nobody's special. Nobody gets given a magic book or a magic wand or a magic. I used to think that rehab was like a magic potion that they give you and you'd come out and you could drink successfully or take drugs successfully. didn't understand it you know which obviously now I learned I can't drink or take a drug successfully I'm different to somebody that can't but recovery is possible for anybody no matter how bad you how bad you are how much you take in how bad your bladder is your kidneys your liver your gallbladder people having prolapses whatever it is is going on for you you can change and I've seen people at every every end of the spectrum of physical health mental health I know a lad that's going in for knee or bladder surgery he was in a bad way he's got a nephrostomy tubes in his kidneys because bypassing his bladder it was in a bad way he's just got it he's clean he's three or four months clean he's going in for his operation his life's back on track so it can be done no matter how bad you are there's all kinds of different stuff you can have done through NHS there's sort of you know natural remedies um You know, things can change and they will get better, but you've got to reach out. You've got to get the support. You can't just wake up and change. You know, I had to work hard to get sober, as you probably know. You know, if you wake up, then I don't know. But imagine if you're working, you know, off of your background maybe. You know, you've got to work hard. It doesn't just get given to you. Nobody comes to your door one day and rescues you and picks you up and takes you to rehab and gets you cleaned. It's got to come from you. you know, but yeah, that sort of got on a little bit there. No,
SPEAKER_01:no, because what I was trying to think is, is that if someone's, you know, watching this or listening to this podcast and you even sort of kind of said it yourself, you know, you mentioned about that sort of help and you kind of like ignoring it sort of thing. But if someone is, listening to your stories and they might not be at that full end scale where you were they might just be at that stage where you said in the first six months and they you know we all know what you know we've all been young once we all know the sort of mentality that we all think this won't happen to me um you know i'm i'm just uh recreationally using it i'm i'm you know i'm out with my mates come on stop being a buzzkill you know yeah and so what i'm trying to get at is is that you know, you know, with you saying what you just said there, you know, I just wanted to know if there's anything that you would say to anyone in that sort of moment of, you know, the early stages and stuff like that, you know. And you probably do that anyway, don't you, with these sessions that you run anyway. You probably get that quite a lot.
SPEAKER_00:So how I sort of capture that to people in schools is I'll say, you know, especially in schools, I'll say to them, look, 95% percent of you probably sat there thinking i don't need to listen to this talk it's not relevant to me and then i'll follow on and say i sat there whatever it is what am I, 26, 11 years ago, 12 years ago, with the exact same mindset. There wasn't no inkling that I was going to become an addict. I wasn't different to anybody. Nobody could have looked at me and said, you're going to waste a period of your life in addiction. There's no warning signs. Nobody comes and gives you a nudge and tells you this is going to happen. Everybody is open to it. It doesn't matter your background, your family, how much money you've got. It doesn't matter what your skin colour, your culture, your religion. Nothing matters when it comes to addiction. It does not discriminate and everybody is fair game. So if you are sat there thinking, I'm not going to become an addict, I don't need to listen, that is the sort of attitude that can get you caught out. I'm not saying you're going to become it, but if you're kind of aware of it and you keep an eye on some of your behaviours and you don't start dabbling with random drugs and if you do, young people do, people do, it happens, just keep your eye out for being the person that texted home and has it the day after or wants another bag you know they're the sort of first sort of signs that oh no maybe I'm a little bit different here you know um Ideally, just don't have any drugs because the risk of having a good time or ending up in addiction does not balance out. But I can't tell people what to do. People are going to do what they're going to do. And some people, I know people, I've got mates that can go out and they can successfully use drugs if that's even a term. For me personally, I don't think there's a way of successfully using them. But some of them will have a pill and they'll go on a night out and then they won't touch it for six months or they'll have a bag of and they can put some in the drawer and go to sleep. Would I advise risking that? Absolutely not. Because the risk involved, like I've just told you, for this last six years, seven, probably longer if we're talking cannabis and cocaine in my life, was not worth the risk that I took in trying to successfully use drugs.
SPEAKER_01:wow so thanks again to Finley for being so open and honest and sharing his story I know that conversations like this aren't always easy but they really do have the power to help others feel less alone if you've been affected by anything we've talked about today or if you're struggling with ketamine use or any substance that is please know that support is out there if you are based in Lancashire you can reach out to us at Inspire your local drug and alcohol support service whether it's for you or someone you care about we're here to help just visit inspirelines.org.uk to find out more or you can look on our parent site at changegrowlive.org where you can be fair yourself or you can also request a call back which is now on our Inspire website anyway if you are listening from outside I'm sure sorry Inspire might not be able to help you in that department however there is other support out there through services in your local area just Just search online for your nearest drug or alcohol service or speak to your GP who can refer you. You are never alone and things can change. Thanks for listening to Catch Me When I Fall. Don't forget to share this episode, subscribe for future stories and take care of yourself or someone else today.